Using race to divide gun owners...

[Byrd666]

Not everyone, just the legal citizens.

 

[Low_Speed]

Poor whites can't afford permits either. The .gov used to screw over blacks, now they screw over everyone.

Didn’t say that they couldn’t. Just that the fees disproportionately effect Black and minorities. Yes, the screw over everyone but they effect minorities on a higher scale.


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[Low_Speed]

Context is difficult in the written word. I simply replied to the text you wrote.

Correlation does not equal causation. My position is that race is not causal; what you are stating, at best, might meet the criteria of disparate impact, which is unintended, and not disparate treatment, which is intentional. However, disparate impact must still be proven by cause of protected class.

Outside of NYC, no state charges more than $150 for a permit



Find one of the nine may issue state that tracks demographic data and I’ll look at it. Not secondary research, but actual primary research data.[/QUOTE]

Are you saying that the outcome of these laws that these states put in place isn’t intended?! They know exactly what the outcome is and who it’ll effect.

And John Lott has done the research.


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[Bithabus]

Didn’t say that they couldn’t. Just that the fees disproportionately effect Black and minorities. Yes, the screw over everyone but they effect minorities on a higher scale.

The fees affect poor people, not minorities. Asians are a minority but they are generally not poor, for example. And the many poor whites who can't afford an LTC are not a minority. Gays are also a minority, but generally not poor.

I agree that gun control is rooted in racism but now it's morphed into something else.

 

[MTA]

NEAGA


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Yep me and my fellow NEAGAs will be at the meet in october

 

[Younggun]

Correlation does not equal causation. My position is that race is not causal; what you are stating, at best, might meet the criteria of disparate impact, which is unintended, and not disparate treatment, which is intentional. However, disparate impact must still be proven by cause of protected class.

Outside of NYC, no state charges more than $150 for a permit



Find one of the nine may issue state that tracks demographic data and I’ll look at it. Not secondary research, but actual primary research data.

Are you saying that the outcome of these laws that these states put in place isn’t intended?! They know exactly what the outcome is and who it’ll effect.

And John Lott has done the research.


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You would need to provide the reason for each denial.

You can’t just say a group was denied at higher rates without looking at the reason for each denial and claim it is evidence of wrongdoing (beyond the terrible laws hurting everyone).


Much like looking at prison statistics and assuming the criminal justice system must be racist. Each case ne da to be seen and weighed on its own merit.

Collectivism is bad, m’kay.


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[Hoji]

NAAGA? Really? That is the name they came up with?

Looked hard for the Onion trademark in this “story”

 

[Low_Speed]

You would need to provide the reason for each denial.

You can’t just say a group was denied at higher rates without looking at the reason for each denial and claim it is evidence of wrongdoing (beyond the terrible laws hurting everyone).


Much like looking at prison statistics and assuming the criminal justice system must be racist. Each case ne da to be seen and weighed on its own merit.

Collectivism is bad, m’kay.


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No, I don’t need to provide a reason for each denial because May issues are most of the time is arbitrary. Most MI states claim that self defense is not a reason for a carry permit.

In a May Issue State I can absolutely say that group was denied at a higher rate because if the people were legally able to own and could afford a carry license what is the justification for denying the permit?!?!

I’d be careful about using the prison sentencing and the Justice system as an example.

And you don’t do South Park very well.


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[Younggun]

No, I don’t need to provide a reason for each denial because May issues are most of the time is arbitrary. Most MI states claim that self defense is not a reason for a carry permit.

In a May Issue State I can absolutely say that group was denied at a higher rate because if the people were legally able to own and could afford a carry license what is the justification for denying the permit?!?!

I’d be careful about using the prison sentencing and the Justice system as an example.

And you don’t do South Park very well.


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I don’t know what justification they use. Neither do you. That is my point.

If they are a may issue state and don’t consider self defense a reason than the entire promise had been flipped from being denied to “not being approved”. I find the entire concept detestable, but you’ve provided no evidence that race is a factor.


I also feel no need to be careful when referencing the criminal justice system. When deciding if cases where judged fairly it must be done on a case by case scenario. You can’t look at raw numbers and make an assumption that high numbers in one area equal a disparity in the system.

The may issue permit system is horrid, but not because of racial disparities. Simply because the I believe people have a right to carry and the state should require people to give any approved reason for exercising that right. You’ve not shown that any permits have been given or withheld based on race. There is plenty of evidence that it is class/income biased. But not racially biased.


I did South Park well enough for you to understand the reference. If you did the voice wrong in your head it’s not my fault.


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[Low_Speed]

The fees affect poor people, not minorities. Asians are a minority but they are generally not poor, for example. And the many poor whites who can't afford an LTC are not a minority. Gays are also a minority, but generally not poor.

I agree that gun control is rooted in racism but now it's morphed into something else.

The fees do effect minorities. And Asians generally are not into gun ownership. Also, you’re assuming gays are a minority. They are a protected class based on sex but even in this day and age of people letting their business hang out, a lot of people like to their private life private.

Either way, I agree with you on your last statement but that doesn’t mean that gun control doesn’t effect minorities on a greater scale.


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[Younggun]

The fees do effect minorities. And Asians generally are not into gun ownership. Also, you’re assuming gays are a minority. They are a protected class based on sex but even in this day and age of people letting their business hang out, a lot of people like to their private life private.

Either way, I agree with you on your last statement but that doesn’t mean that gun control doesn’t effect minorities on a greater scale.


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Stop trying to box everyone up by their race. People are individuals, not racial and ethnic groups.


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[pronstar]

And Asians generally are not into gun ownership.

Have you met any folks from Southeast Asia who escaped from a communist regime?

They’re pretty adamant about both gun control and legal immigration.

Trust me on this one


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[Low_Speed]

Stop trying to box everyone up by their race. People are individuals, not racial and ethnic groups.


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Stop trying to live in a fantasy world where race doesn’t matter. The U.S. votes in a black president and everyone thinks racism no longer exists. People like that are similar to the people that believe evil doesn’t exist and that people don’t need semi-automatic weapons.

People are individuals as well as racial and ethnic groups. Next time you fill out a 4473 you should X out the part that ask what your ethnicity is.


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[Low_Speed]

Have you met any folks from Southeast Asia who escaped from a communist regime?

They’re pretty adamant about both gun control and legal immigration.

Trust me on this one


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Yes, just like I’ve met Jewish people that believe that gun ownership is bad.

They used to say never again now they support gun control. People tend to forget all of that once they have been safe for awhile. Look at the citizens of the United States. Democrats are attempting to turn this nation communist and we have rampant illegal immigration. Revolutionary War, Civil War, 2 World Wars and we have population that want to disarm us and a bunch of elected politicians that are willing to violate the Bill of Rights to do it.

Trust me on this. You don’t know what you are talking about.


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[Low_Speed]

I don’t know what justification they use. Neither do you. That is my point.

If they are a may issue state and don’t consider self defense a reason than the entire promise had been flipped from being denied to “not being approved”. I find the entire concept detestable, but you’ve provided no evidence that race is a factor.


I also feel no need to be careful when referencing the criminal justice system. When deciding if cases where judged fairly it must be done on a case by case scenario. You can’t look at raw numbers and make an assumption that high numbers in one area equal a disparity in the system.

The may issue permit system is horrid, but not because of racial disparities. Simply because the I believe people have a right to carry and the state should require people to give any approved reason for exercising that right. You’ve not shown that any permits have been given or withheld based on race. There is plenty of evidence that it is class/income biased. But not racially biased.


I did South Park well enough for you to understand the reference. If you did the voice wrong in your head it’s not my fault.


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I will reply to the rest later but you are even terrible at South Park in text. I could connect a person doing a Jerry Lewis impersonation it that doesn’t mean the person wasn’t terrible at it.


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[toddnjoyce]

When all you have is a hammer....

 

[Younggun]

Stop trying to live in a fantasy world where race doesn’t matter. The U.S. votes in a black president and everyone thinks racism no longer exists. People like that are similar to the people that believe evil doesn’t exist and that people don’t need semi-automatic weapons.

People are individuals as well as racial and ethnic groups. Next time you fill out a 4473 you should X out the part that ask what your ethnicity is.


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This has nothing to do with Obama.


You are making less sense with every post. Grasping at straws attempting to connect everything to race. It’s collectivism and a tool of the left.

Racial and ethnic grouping tells you nothing about an individual. You seems obsessed with it.


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[Younggun]

When all you have is a hammer....

everything is racist.


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[Low_Speed]

This has nothing to do with Obama.


You are making less sense with every post. Grasping at straws attempting to connect everything to race. It’s collectivism and a tool of the left.

Racial and ethnic grouping tells you nothing about an individual. You seems obsessed with it.


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You made no sense since the beginning. Not grasping at straws. Just pointing out that just because you don’t think that racism doesn’t mean that it doesn’t.

You have no ideal what you are talking about on the subject. Trying to tell someone of another race/ethnicity about their experiences is ridiculous. Obsessed? You are one to talk.


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[Younggun]

You made no sense since the beginning. Not grasping at straws. Just pointing out that just because you don’t think that racism doesn’t mean that it doesn’t.

You have no ideal what you are talking about on the subject. Trying to tell someone of another race/ethnicity about their experiences is ridiculous. Obsessed? You are one to talk.


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Never once said racism doesn’t exist.


Not sure how you can accuse me of being obsessed with grouping people by skin color when I am against it.


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