I have several of them, all SIGs. They are easier to shoot than my .40 S&Ws and, apparently hit as hard. Texas DPS still use them (I think) although they toyed with converting to 9mm a couple of years back. What DPS liked the best were their S&W 686 revolvers which are the best equivalent to their .357 SIGs.What about the .357 SIG?
I've heard that a number of police departments switched from .40 S&W to 9mm because the "smaller" recruits (women) could not handle the .40 S&W recoil, which can be quite stout. Sounds like a training issue to me.Seems many Law enforcement agencies are going to 9mm instead of .40. I know some still are at 40cal but. Personally there is not much difference between the 9 and 40 but alot between the 9 and 45 acp. My thought have 9 and 45
I have several of them, all SIGs. They are easier to shoot than my .40 S&Ws and, apparently hit as hard. Texas DPS still use them (I think) although they toyed with converting to 9mm a couple of years back. What DPS liked the best were their S&W 686 revolvers which are the best equivalent to their .357 SIGs.
The FBI actually wanted and used a 1076 S&W in 10 mm full-power loading for awhile but switched because the women agents, in particular, could not handle the recoil. The FBI switched to a reduced power 180-grain load that morphed into the 180-grain .40 S&W round load. The FBI wanted a new "super gun" load because they got into a gunfight in Miami in 1986 with two very bad bank robbers, one of whom was armed with a Ruger Mini-14 and very good with it (could hit tin cans at 25 yards consistently while firing from the hip). This guy was hit with a 9mm round fired from a S&W 59 and received a "non-survivable" wound from one of the FBI agents. The Mini-14 shooter then killed both that agent and one other (who had lost his glasses and could see what was going on). That fiasco was more about poor tactics, lack of preparation (the FBI in those days was relying on saying "We're the FBI" and the bad guys just giving up) and the worst felony stop in history. The bad guys said "So what" and shot seven of the FBI agents to ribbons. Nothing makes up for putting rounds on target (remember, only hits count), certainly not a "super gun" or "super round".I am wondering what type of loading the FBI used then for 10mm. Thanks for sharing
I never said that the DPS wanted to go back to revolvers, just that they wanted the power of the .357 back and .357 SIG was as close as they could find.I don’t know who in DPS told you this, but I have family at DPS and haven’t heard any of them mention wanting to go back to revolvers in any form or caliber.
They have also completely transitioned back to 9mm as far as I’m aware. Ammo is cheaper and qualification acor s improves across the. Oats for both men and women. I believe still using a Sig, but never bothered to ask after they ran in to issues with the S&Ws.
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I never said that the DPS wanted to go back to revolvers, just that they wanted the power of the .357 back and .357 SIG was as close as they could find.
No, my apologies. I did not make my point clearly. No police agency of which I've heard wants to go back to revolvers. Practice - a lot of it - makes hits on target; rounds in the air does not necessarily translate into hits. In combat, no hits = you die. I just don't trust the 9mm as much as others calibers like .45 ACP, .357 SIG & .40 S&W; you must be confident that you can hit your target with your firearm and I am not as confident with 9x19 mm. My prejudice.Sorry, I guess I misunderstood.
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. I did not make my point you die. I just don't trust the 9mm as much as others calibers like .45 ACP, .357 SIG & .40 S&W; you must be confident that you can hit your target with your firearm and I am not as confident with 9x19 mm. My prejudice.
I've heard that a number of police departments switched from .40 S&W to 9mm because the "smaller" recruits (women) could not handle the .40 S&W recoil, which can be quite stout. Sounds like a training issue to me.
The FBI actually wanted and used a 1076 S&W in 10 mm full-power loading for awhile but switched because the women agents, in particular, could not handle the recoil. The FBI switched to a reduced power 180-grain load that morphed into the 180-grain .40 S&W round load. The FBI wanted a new "super gun" load because they got into a gunfight in Miami in 1986 with two very bad bank robbers, one of whom was armed with a Ruger Mini-14 and very good with it (could hit tin cans at 25 yards consistently while firing from the hip). This guy was hit with a 9mm round fired from a S&W 59 and received a "non-survivable" wound from one of the FBI agents. The Mini-14 shooter then killed both that agent and one other (who had lost his glasses and could see what was going on). That fiasco was more about poor tactics, lack of preparation (the FBI in those days was relying on saying "We're the FBI" and the bad guys just giving up) and the worst felony stop in history. The bad guys said "So what" and shot seven of the FBI agents to ribbons. Nothing makes up for putting rounds on target (remember, only hits count), certainly not a "super gun" or "super round".
If anyone has a 10mm Glock or 1911 they'd like to take to the meetup we can see how i feel about the recoil. I'm one of the smaller members and can probably speak to whether or not I would feel comfortable shooting it in a defense situation.
what he said