Renewal Class Scrubbed...

[Younggun]

No, I am not. As long as there is a license required, ( we do not have Constitutional Carry in Texas) then having someone prove a minimal amount of proficiency every five years to maintain a license to carry is not unreasonable. Remember, one of the biggest advantages to a CHL is reciprocity with other states. If we lower our standards too much, we could lose that.

The level of proficiency required to qualify is so insanely low I don't see how anything could be lost between renewals.

 

[Hoji]

The level of proficiency required to qualify is so insanely low I don't see how anything could be lost between renewals.

You would be shocked at the number of security officers that have to shoot their requals two or even three times to pass the course of fire.

For people that shoot on a regular basis, it is no problem at all. For the majority, the only time they shoot is when they have to.

This goes for CHL requals as well.

 

[Charlie]

So being just a citizen I can exercise what I believe is a Constitutional right ............. as long as I prove my proficiency and pay the state some money periodically? If that is the case (as it is currently) then it becomes a "privilege" given to me by the state as long as I abide by whatever they decide.

 

[Younggun]

Yes, and I watched those in my class who brought their brand new gun to shoot.

After being shown how to load it they qualified. Not bad for never firing a gun before.


I don't know the qual standard for a security officer but as mentioned before, it's a condition of employment and unrelated to the 2A.

 

[Hoji]

Yes, and I watched those in my class who brought their brand new gun to shoot.

After being shown how to load it they qualified. Not bad for never firing a gun before.


I don't know the qual standard for a security officer but as mentioned before, it's a condition of employment and unrelated to the 2A.

Exact course of fire. And if you have a CHL you have already given up your 2A rights and turned it into a privilege.

If you carry w/o a CHL ( car carry) and if Texas passes CC, then the only reason to keep a CHL is reciprocity, and you would want to have as much reciprocity with other states as possible. Having higher standards will do that.

 

[Hoji]

So being just a citizen I can exercise what I believe is a Constitutional right ............. as long as I prove my proficiency and pay the state some money periodically? If that is the case (as it is currently) then it becomes a "privilege" given to me by the state as long as I abide by whatever they decide.

If you have a CHL you have already done that.

 

[txinvestigator]

I don't know the qual standard for a security officer but as mentioned before, it's a condition of employment and unrelated to the 2A.

Just for fun, let's examine that. If the constitution grants me the right to carry as a citizen, shouldn't that right extend to me at work; regardless of what that job is?

 

[Younggun]

Just for fun, let's examine that. If the constitution grants me the right to carry as a citizen, shouldn't that right extend to me at work; regardless of what that job is?

Employers have rights also, including the right to make rules for their employees. I have the right to find a different employer if I disagree with those rules.

Just like I believe in the right to carry but also believe someone has the right to not allow me to carry on their property.

 

[Charlie]

I didn't "forget" how to shoot every four years or so.

 

[Hoji]

I didn't "forget" how to shoot every four years or so.

Only persons word we have for that is yours.
Again, if we get CC it will not matter, but if you have a license, you should have to prove you have the bare minimum skills to operate your handgun and get most of your shots on target.

Go back to my reciprocity statements.

 

[Younggun]

Only persons word we have for that is yours.
Again, if we get CC it will not matter, but if you have a license, you should have to prove you have the bare minimum skills to operate your handgun and get most of your shots on target.

Go back to my reciprocity statements.

It was stated earlier in this thread that reciprocity is based on the stringency of the background check.

And now you question whether someone forgets how to shoot every four years.

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel at this point aren't you?

 

[Charlie]

Only persons word we have for that is yours.
Again, if we get CC it will not matter, but if you have a license, you should have to prove you have the bare minimum skills to operate your handgun and get most of your shots on target.

Go back to my reciprocity statements.

Exactly! About only having my word...............same as when I keep renewing my driver's license.

Why should I have to prove it at all? Much less every 4 or 7 or whatever years?

I have a firm belief you don't understand 2A. Nothing in the Constitution says anything about "...with the government's approval, payment to the government, a license, training, etc."

 

[txinvestigator]

Employers have rights also, including the right to make rules for their employees. I have the right to find a different employer if I disagree with those rules.

Just like I believe in the right to carry but also believe someone has the right to not allow me to carry on their property.

I am not talking about employer rules, I am referring to the government restricting my right to carry because of my job. Cops and guards are statutorily required to meet minimum standards.

 

[Hoji]

It was stated earlier in this thread that reciprocity is based on the stringency of the background check.

And now you question whether someone forgets how to shoot every four years.

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel at this point aren't you?

It was stated wrong. We lost reciprocity with New Mexico for a while and we lost it with Washington State, both because Texas allows people under 21 to have a CHL.

It does not have to do with the background check alone. It has as much to do with the stringency of requirements if not more.

But hey, I just teach the classes, what do I know.

 

[Younggun]

I am not talking about employer rules, I am referring to the government restricting my right to carry because of my job. Cops and guards are statutorily required to meet minimum standards.

That is a qualification to hold the position. You are being paid to maintain a certain level of proficiency. Not meeting that level will not effect their/your right to carry off duty.

 

[Hoji]

Exactly! About only having my word...............same as when I keep renewing my driver's license.

Why should I have to prove it at all? Much less every 4 or 7 or whatever years?

I have a firm belief you don't understand 2A. Nothing in the Constitution says anything about "...with the government's approval, payment to the government, a license, training, etc."

I understand it just fine. I also understand if you submit to a CHL, you have given up the "right" and given permission to the State to infringe that right. Some of those infringements have been to show proficiency.

Every so often when you renew your driver license you have to take a vision test. Same thing.

 

[Younggun]

It was stated wrong. We lost reciprocity with New Mexico for a while and we lost it with Washington State, both because Texas allows people under 21 to have a CHL.

It does not have to do with the background check alone. It has as much to do with the stringency of requirements if not more.

But hey, I just teach the classes, what do I know.

I would happily give up reciprocity to allow others to exercise their right.

Should we create the toughest laws we can so that we insure we are able to carry in as many states as possible?

Should we infringe on the rights of our own citizens simply because another state chooses to do so?

 

[Hoji]

I would happily give up reciprocity to allow others to exercise their right.

Should we create the toughest laws we can so that we insure we are able to carry in as many states as possible?

Should we infringe on the rights of our own citizens simply because another state chooses to do so?

That's nice. You are welcome to your opinion.

RIF. I have stated that CC would be great, but we don't have it. If we did get it, we should keep the permit process as tough as it needs to be to keep reciprocity with as many states as possible. Some of us travel.
With the exception of Vermont, the other states with CC have a permit/license system in place for their citizens who travel.

 

[Younggun]

I understand it just fine. I also understand if you submit to a CHL, you have given up the "right" and given permission to the State to infringe that right. Some of those infringements have been to show proficiency.

Every so often when you renew your driver license you have to take a vision test. Same thing.

Driving is not a right, not applicable to this situation.

I have given the state, nor the federal gov permission to infringe on anything. However I can fight it the smart way it the dumb way. OCing down Main Street to prove a point is the dumb way.

 

[Charlie]

It was stated wrong. We lost reciprocity with New Mexico for a while and we lost it with Washington State, both because Texas allows people under 21 to have a CHL.

It does not have to do with the background check alone. It has as much to do with the stringency of requirements if not more.

But hey, I just teach the classes, what do I know.

As a former instructor and administrator I know that just because someone teaches something doesn't mean everything they teach is correct. You may or may not have your facts regarding reciprocity entirely correct. Assuming you are correct, does that mean because one state is infringing upon our rights, the rest have to do it? Shit, just stay out of their PhoKing state! Don't force the rest of us 'cause you want it.