SB354: College carry

[carlw]

I see little good with guns on campus.
Self-defense, sure if someone doesn't have the drop on you.
When I went to UT Autin, some of those classes were huge!! 450+ If someone were to pull out a gun and threaten the class and only 10% of the class was armed--there could be 45 people trying to take this person down. Bullets start flying and guess what?!?
Some of these kids might hurt themselves trying to get the pistol out of their backpacks in a tense situation.
Having the privilege to carry a gun on campus does not translate into the abilty/skill/forethought of each holder to handle their weapon.

I am for all competent, intelligent, law-abiding people of good moral character to be able to carry guns but I can't justify guns in a situation where there are thousands of people jammed into small areas. Especially people's children away from home for the first time.

Non-lethal is the way to go. Give them tasers or stun guns. I'm in class and the dude next to me pulls a gun, hopefully one of us around him can't zap his sorry a$$
If someone F's up with non-lethal force, lives won't be changed forever.

If guns are allowed on campus, someone will make a mistake and the lawmakers will shift their position and possibly make things worse.

 

[txinvestigator]

"kids" would not be allowed to carry. One must be 21 to obtain a CHL unless military. There is not 10% of the population with a CHL. A class will not have 10% carrying. All of your other arguments could also apply to carry anywhere, and after 16 years of CHL IN Texas nome of those have happened.

Bullets beat tasers. What you want are free kill zones. If you are afraid to carry then don't. But do not make ME a sitting duck.

 

[London]

Bullets start flying and guess what?!?

The same argument is made by the Bradys each time a state tries to legalize CHL. We have more than enough history and data to disprove the whole "Innocent bystanders will get shot by goodguys" argument. People are reluctant enough to pull the trigger on people who want to kill them. Throw innocents into the mix and there is going to be a lot of reluctance to take the shot without certainty.

Some of these kids might hurt themselves trying to get the pistol out of their backpacks in a tense situation.

The odds of them having their guns in backpacks instead of on their person are very slim. One could just as easily argue they might get hurt by a crazed gunman trying to kill them since they can't defend themselves. You can use the whole "People could (perform whatever harmful thing)" argument to ban absolutely anything- from guns to plastic scissors.

Having the privilege to carry a gun on campus does not translate into the abilty/skill/forethought of each holder to handle their weapon.

The Second Amendment is a right- not a privilege.

Non-lethal is the way to go. Give them tasers or stun guns.

Tazers require you to be, I believe, no more than 25 feet away from an attacker (any LEOs feel free to correct me here). Better hope you hit your target the first time, too- no reloads. Stun guns can only be deployed at arm length. Both can be defeated by thick clothing/drugged mindset.If you are wise you won't bring either to a gun fight.

Also, who do you propose "Give" tasers and stunguns to students? Tasers are very expensive. The cheap ones are $300, quality ones were $600 last time I checked. I'm unaware of any organization who can afford this. Even the crappiest stun guns are $20 (and will break quickly). It's simply too cost prohibitive. Even if we did hand them out I'd imagine the majority of them would be wasted by college pranksters, left at home by disinterested students, broken, or allowed to let their batteries die.

If guns are allowed on campus, someone will make a mistake and the lawmakers will shift their position and possibly make things worse.

Since 2006 Utah has allowed campus carry on 30 campuses- without a single incident. I respect your right to have your own opinion but I do not respect your opinion itself. It is based on flawed logic and a lack of familiarity with well established facts. I'm not saying this to be mean or disrespectful- you seem like a smart fellow. Your conclusions are just very flawed.

Please go to the following websites and do some reading. You'll be glad you did!

Facts, Statistics & Arguments Supporting Concealed Carry on Campus

http://www.campuscarry.com/pdf/sccc_answers_2011.pdf

Good luck on your journey finding the truth.

 

[DrBart2]

"kids" would not be allowed to carry. One must be 21 to obtain a CHL unless military. There is not 10% of the population with a CHL. A class will not have 10% carrying. All of your other arguments could also apply to carry anywhere, and after 16 years of CHL IN Texas nome of those have happened.

Bullets beat tasers. What you want are free kill zones. If you are afraid to carry then don't. But do not make ME a sitting duck.

+1 I have about ten years of college under my belt and have been in some huge classes (especially at UTA). If bad guy came in and started shooting I would expect most to run, or as has happened in real life attacks, dive to the floor and crowd under desks. In the mean time the bad guy just walks around randomly shooting people. If a good guy also had a gun there is a very good chance that the bad guy's body count would be reduced. As in a few documented cases, the bad guy actually turned his gun on himself the second someone started shooting back. I for one would like to have the opportunity to save my own life and maybe others in the process. I guess some people don't understand that you actually have to be a "good guy" to get a CHL!

 

[GunlessNot4Long]

I see little good with guns on campus.
Self-defense, sure if someone doesn't have the drop on you.
When I went to UT Autin, some of those classes were huge!! 450+ If someone were to pull out a gun and threaten the class and only 10% of the class was armed--there could be 45 people trying to take this person down. Bullets start flying and guess what?!?
Some of these kids might hurt themselves trying to get the pistol out of their backpacks in a tense situation.
Having the privilege to carry a gun on campus does not translate into the abilty/skill/forethought of each holder to handle their weapon.

I am for all competent, intelligent, law-abiding people of good moral character to be able to carry guns but I can't justify guns in a situation where there are thousands of people jammed into small areas. Especially people's children away from home for the first time.

Non-lethal is the way to go. Give them tasers or stun guns. I'm in class and the dude next to me pulls a gun, hopefully one of us around him can't zap his sorry a$$
If someone F's up with non-lethal force, lives won't be changed forever.

If guns are allowed on campus, someone will make a mistake and the lawmakers will shift their position and possibly make things worse.

First of all Cho the V.Tech shooter was not sitting in class and decided to shoot, he sneaked in the door shooting the professor then the sitting ducks"students". No one could of run to him and taser him if he had two pistol.

Second, These arent "kids" they are students which some are veterans who have been to war and back to get a higher education. kids are 17 or younger. Texas is not handing out guns to college students but allowing law abiding students who already have a CHL to carry their guns. In which they under go training to safely engage on a target.

Third, Privilege? C'mon since when is it a privilege to self-defense, Its an individual right to self-defend.

 

[MR Redneck]

I see little good with guns on campus.
Self-defense, sure if someone doesn't have the drop on you.
When I went to UT Autin, some of those classes were huge!! 450+ If someone were to pull out a gun and threaten the class and only 10% of the class was armed--there could be 45 people trying to take this person down. Bullets start flying and guess what?!?
Some of these kids might hurt themselves trying to get the pistol out of their backpacks in a tense situation.
Having the privilege to carry a gun on campus does not translate into the abilty/skill/forethought of each holder to handle their weapon.

I am for all competent, intelligent, law-abiding people of good moral character to be able to carry guns but I can't justify guns in a situation where there are thousands of people jammed into small areas. Especially people's children away from home for the first time.

Non-lethal is the way to go. Give them tasers or stun guns. I'm in class and the dude next to me pulls a gun, hopefully one of us around him can't zap his sorry a$$
If someone F's up with non-lethal force, lives won't be changed forever.

If guns are allowed on campus, someone will make a mistake and the lawmakers will shift their position and possibly make things worse.

First off, those " kids" you talking about are ADULTS! You must be 21 to have a concealed carry license.
Second, those ADULT probably dont give a damn what you think about their right to self defense.
Third, your accusations about bullets flying around shows your stupidity. For students tobe able to carry on campus they must have a CHL. That CHL involves training on laws and the use of the handgun. There are already states allowing concealed carry on campus. Constitutional Carry states also require a license for students to carry on campus. None of those state have had " BULLETS FLYING AROUND" all over campus.
Fouth, fireamrs are not a privilage, IT'S A RIGHT!
Fift, Your idiotic suggestion for non-lethal tazers and stun guns is just flat out dumbass! Who in the hell is stupid enough to think a stun gun or tazer is sufficent defense agains someone armed with a firearm? You would be better off running away as fast as you can if all you have is a tazer!
Your comments toward the Constitutional Rights of ALL Americans including students is offensive.
I never step foot on any campus but I can see how important it is for students to be able to defend themselves. Looks like you went out of your way to post your liberal ideas MR. 5 post Troll.

 

[txinvestigator]

You lose your argument when you resort to name calling, insults and personal attacks in such a manner. Those are the tactics of the left. If your argument is valid and strong, you do not need such tactics.

 

[carlw]

Alright, let me spell it out for you people.

C H A O S do you know what that word means?

It's what happens when all hell breaks loose. Which is what happens when someone starts shooting in a crowded place.
Who's the shooter?

If I get his stupid a$$ with my first shot, what prevents the next person from mistaking me for the shooter and shoots me? What if they miss me and hit YOUR DAUGHTER hiding next to me for protection?
And so on.

Having a license and being 21 doens't magically make all that possibility for accidental shootings go away.

Maybe if they had a couple of very qualified students providing security in their class the dumba$$ would think twice about opening up with his gun.
Put them on scholarship.

I sure as hell don't want my safety compromised by shots going everwhere.

What about that guy who ran through UT Austin's campus with a gun and hid in the library? A place I used to study at--if he is not shooting at anyone what do people with a CCL do?


It's gonna' be real tough to know where you bullets are going in a campus environment--and doesn't every responsible gun handler take that into accout before they shoot?

 

[MR Redneck]

Got any real life examples of this happening?
So far all we have is mass shooting with noone being able to defend themselves.
Your suggesting this is the way we should leave it.

 

[txinvestigator]

Alright, let me spell it out for you people.

C H A O S do you know what that word means?

STOP. Just because one person was obnoxious to you here it does not license you to behave the same.

It's what happens when all hell breaks loose. Which is what happens when someone starts shooting in a crowded place.
Who's the shooter?

If I get his stupid a$$ with my first shot, what prevents the next person from mistaking me for the shooter and shoots me? What if they miss me and hit YOUR DAUGHTER hiding next to me for protection?

What if there is NO ONE there to protect them, and they are murdered by the shooter? And it won't be MY daughter, because she will be the armed student shooting the bad guy. She won't miss.

Having a license and being 21 doens't magically make all that possibility for accidental shootings go away.

Outlawing carry guarantees MANY deaths when an active shooter starts.
.

I sure as hell don't want my safety compromised by shots going everwhere.

First, in 16 years of Texans carrying handguns under a license this has just not happened. Second, you would rather your safety be compromised by the bad guy?

What about that guy who ran through UT Austin's campus with a gun and hid in the library? A place I used to study at--if he is not shooting at anyone what do people with a CCL do?

what they DO, is what anyone does. Secure themself in place and if the bad guy comes in shooting you defend yourself. Or you could keep it like it is now and everyone can cower while being slaughtered.

It's gonna' be real tough to know where you bullets are going in a campus environment--and doesn't every responsible gun handler take that into accout before they shoot?

NO its not. How is a campus different from a mall, movie theater, concert, etc? My bullets go where my sight picture is.

 

[DrBart2]

You could take carlw's argument further if you wanted. Using his logic you shouldn't have LEOs armed with firearms at any event or place where there is a large group of people. With all the "chaos" who knows who the police will shoot! I guess carlw would rather take his chances with the bad guy running out of ammo before he gets to him! Even if an officer was posted in each class his argument wouldn't change - shooter comes in, chaos, police officer shoots innocents while trying to stop the shooter. Who knows where the officers bullets will go on campus!!!
I bet the officer will know (into the bad guy) and I will know where mine will be going also.

 

[London]

If I get his stupid a$$ with my first shot, what prevents the next person from mistaking me for the shooter and shoots me? What if they miss me and hit YOUR DAUGHTER hiding next to me for protection?

If you are referring to the police, the proper SOP would be to disarm everyone and figure out the rest from there. If you are talking about civilians, name me one time it has ever happened. What's to stop you from getting shot by a CHL holder? The answer is: "A LOT." If a girl is hiding behind you for protection that's the most clear indicator I can think of that you are not the bad guy.

Maybe if they had a couple of very qualified students providing security in their class the dumba$$ would think twice about opening up with his gun.
Put them on scholarship.

Security guards must be licensed in the State of Texas. The ones with guns even more so. How is their license to protect their fellow citizens and themselves any more valid than mine? I don't know what you mean by "Qualified," but unless those qualifications include knowing how to use and being allowed to carry a gun, these guards will do nothing to stop a shooter. Those are the same qualifications CHL holders have, by the way.

Also, who do you propose pay for these scholarships? It won't be the state- at least not Texas, that's for sure. They cut the education budget 10% this year. My school can't even afford a full staff of librarians or tutors. This is the second time you've proposed spending money to solve a problem without explaining where it will come from. You must be a democrat.

I sure as hell don't want my safety compromised by shots going everwhere.

Neither do I, which is why I will shoot at and hit anyone involved in unlawful deadly conduct with a firearm.

What about that guy who ran through UT Austin's campus with a gun and hid in the library? A place I used to study at--if he is not shooting at anyone what do people with a CCL do?

It's "CHL." What do you think they would do? Open fire on someone who's barricaded himself and not threatening anybody, unnecessarily risking their lives in the process, or get the Hell away from him like any normal person?

Your arguments can be simplified into the following statement: "It's best for students to be unable to defend themselves when someone is trying to kill them."

I know you got some harsh responses here, but please try to remain civil. We don't have anything against you personally; it's just that your arguments are very poor and bring nothing to the table which hasn't been disproven dozens if not hundreds of times.

 

[woodsong]

Alright, let me spell it out for you people.

C H A O S do you know what that word means?

It's what happens when all hell breaks loose. Which is what happens when someone starts shooting in a crowded place.

Glad you cleared that up for me. Here I was, thinking that crimes on a college campus tended to happen in dark parking garages, or folks walking alone late at night -- glad to hear that they're only happening in crowded classrooms.

 

[RstyShcklfrd]

Glad you cleared that up for me. Here I was, thinking that crimes on a college campus tended to happen in dark parking garages, or folks walking alone late at night -- glad to hear that they're only happening in crowded classrooms.

I sure hope that when I'm walking home alone at night from campus that the campus police will be there to protect me. But seriously, if in fact I do get robbed on my way home from trying to earn an education, who can I file a claim with to have my stuff replaced that I wasn't legally allowed to protect(assuming I'm not dead on the sidewalk)?

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

At the end of the day you either have the basic right, as a human-freaking-being, to defend yourself or not.

 

[KAK]

At the end of the day you either have the basic right, as a human-freaking-being, to defend yourself or not.

+1000

 

[Bithabus]

Alright, let me spell it out for you people.

C H A O S do you know what that word means?

It's what happens when all hell breaks loose. Which is what happens when someone starts shooting in a crowded place.
Who's the shooter?

If I get his stupid a$$ with my first shot, what prevents the next person from mistaking me for the shooter and shoots me? What if they miss me and hit YOUR DAUGHTER hiding next to me for protection?
And so on.

Having a license and being 21 doens't magically make all that possibility for accidental shootings go away.

Maybe if they had a couple of very qualified students providing security in their class the dumba$$ would think twice about opening up with his gun.
Put them on scholarship.

I sure as hell don't want my safety compromised by shots going everwhere.

What about that guy who ran through UT Austin's campus with a gun and hid in the library? A place I used to study at--if he is not shooting at anyone what do people with a CCL do?


It's gonna' be real tough to know where you bullets are going in a campus environment--and doesn't every responsible gun handler take that into accout before they shoot?

Do you ever go the movies? Do you ever go to a shopping mall?

Do you believe carry should be banned in those places?

 

[Texas1911]

You will disagree with some people ... but, I want people to discuss the topic without namecalling (*cough* Redneck *cough*) ... I deleted some posts.

 

[Driller]

A class with 450 would usually be a freshman year class about one of the basics..ie..English,Biology,Algebra..etc. Most kids would not be 21. Good bet the odds are there would not be a single CHL in the class except the teacher.

 

[MR Redneck]

A class with 450 would usually be a freshman year class about one of the basics..ie..English,Biology,Algebra..etc. Most kids would not be 21. Good bet the odds are there would not be a single CHL in the class except the teacher.

Good point. Even if not, could we assume that the thought of people being armed might actually" Prevent" crime?
As it stands, we all know that not passing this bill has nothing to do with "Preventing" crime.
Do we not need any crime prevention for students?