Ukraine invasion

[Havok1]

Another lie or inexcusably ignorant statement from you that is simply not based in fact.

Except for the first few days/weeks of the russian invasion due to the lag of response by the government, it was never a minority of European nations supporting Ukraine.

You attempt to deflect by claiming April 2023 was somehow different than now, which is only a few days later is a juvenile attempt to lie yet again. You are now lying about your lies...

Your assertions are nothing more than a monkey slinging poo to try to discredit a sovereign, free nation that was invaded and having its citizens murdered by a tryant.

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To refresh your memory, here is what I posted about data that was current back in april.

“There are 44 countries in Europe. 37 countries that I could find are providing aid to Ukraine. If I counted right, 25 of them are European countries. Of the 37 total countries, 2/3 are spending less than half of what the US is as a percentage of GDP. 16 of those are European counties. What I said was correct. if you thought you were proving me wrong, you weren’t.”

so 19 European nations were providing no aid, and 16 were providing aid, but less than half of what we were as a percentage of GDP. That means that only 9 countries, or 20% were providing at least half as much as us as a percentage of GDP. I’d say my comment was pretty spot on.

We could also compare nominal dollar amounts as well if you’d like, but that wouldn’t be in your favor either.

 

[easy rider]

Another lie or inexcusably ignorant statement from you that is simply not based in fact.

Except for the first few days/weeks of the russian invasion due to the lag of response by the government, it was never a minority of European nations supporting Ukraine.

You attempt to deflect by claiming April 2023 was somehow different than now, which is only a few days later is a juvenile attempt to lie yet again. You are now lying about your lies...

Your assertions are nothing more than a monkey slinging poo to try to discredit a sovereign, free nation that was invaded and having its citizens murdered by a tryant.

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That's a bit deceptive when you consider all of the EU's GDP is nearly half that of the U.S.

 

[cycleguy2300]

That's a bit deceptive when you consider all of the EU's GDP is nearly half that of the U.S.

It makes their contributions all that much deeper. The widow's mite more or less

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[cycleguy2300]

To refresh your memory, here is what I posted about data that was current back in april.

“There are 44 countries in Europe. 37 countries that I could find are providing aid to Ukraine. If I counted right, 25 of them are European countries. Of the 37 total countries, 2/3 are spending less than half of what the US is as a percentage of GDP. 16 of those are European counties. What I said was correct. if you thought you were proving me wrong, you weren’t.”

so 19 European nations were providing no aid, and 16 were providing aid, but less than half of what we were as a percentage of GDP. That means that only 9 countries, or 20% were providing at least half as much as us as a percentage of GDP. I’d say my comment was pretty spot on.

We could also compare nominal dollar amounts as well if you’d like, but that wouldn’t be in your favor either.

Funny, I dont see that... in the screenshot of your post. You are clearly trying to mislead and engadge in deception and make it out as if "most are doing next to nothing for Ukraine" which is simply a lie.

A large percentage European nations are providing substantially more as a portion of GDP than the USA but you try to make it out as if Europe is ignoring Ukriane and that the USA is one of a rare few nations supporting Ukraine.

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[easy rider]

It makes their contributions all that much deeper. The widow's mite more or less

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Can you really compare a country with a 40 billion dollar GDP to a country with 26 Trillion? That's pennies to the dollars.

 

[Havok1]

Funny, I dont see that... in the screenshot of your post. You are clearly trying to mislead and engadge in deception and make it out as if "most are doing next to nothing for Ukraine" which is simply a lie.

A large percentage European nations are providing substantially more as a portion of GDP than the USA but you try to make it out as if Europe is ignoring Ukriane and that the USA is one of a rare few nations supporting Ukraine.

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It was a different post that I made back then. That information was current at the time. If that has changed, I haven’t looked. Maybe if I made the claim today, I would be wrong, but it was correct at the time it was made based on charts from the same website you used.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Can you really compare a country with a 40 billion dollar GDP to a country with 26 Trillion? That's pennies to the dollars.

That's the whole point of GDP is to be able to compare economys.

Think about someone who makes 10million dollars/year and spends 100k a year on guns, vs someone who makes 100k/y and spends 5k a year on guns...

A 0.4% of GDP donation from the USA is a lot but is pretty much un-noticiable. Out of a $100k/y income it would be $400...
The nations giving much larger percentages of GDP would be like spending $400 with an income of $40% or 50k... it will hurt more.

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[cycleguy2300]

It was a different post that I made back then. That information was current at the time. If that has changed, I haven’t looked. Maybe if I made the claim today, I would be wrong, but it was correct at the time it was made based on charts from the same website you used.

The post I referenced was never current nor correct.

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[easy rider]

That's the whole point of GDP is to be able to compare economys.

Think about someone who makes 10million dollars/year and spends 100k a year on guns, vs someone who makes 100k/y and spends 5k a year on guns...

A 0.4% of GDP donation from the USA is a lot but is pretty much un-noticiable. Out of a $100k/y income it would be $400...
The nations giving much larger percentages of GDP would be like spending $400 with an income of $40% or 50k... it will hurt more.

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They also don't have the population. The deception is in that it makes the U.S. look as if they haven't put as much as others into it. You can spin it any way you want, it's still deceptive to compare it that way rather than dollar amounts.

 

[Havok1]

The post I referenced was never current nor correct.

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ok cool. If you are impressed by the European countries that were providing anywhere between nothing at all, and half of what we were as a percentage of GDP then cool. I don’t really care.

 

[cycleguy2300]

They also don't have the population. The deception is in that it makes the U.S. look as if they haven't put as much as others into it. You can spin it any way you want, it's still deceptive to compare it that way rather than dollar amounts.

No, % of GDP is used to understand how much value each dollar had for the giver...

A wealthy man may give a big numbered donation but it is a small portion of his income and unnoticeable in his expenses while a poor could give a bum $5 and have to reach much deaper into his pocket to find it. GDP allows us to relate how much an expense will "cost".



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[cycleguy2300]

ok cool. If you are impressed by the European countries that were providing anywhere between nothing at all, and half of what we were as a percentage of GDP then cool. I don’t really care.

If you dont care as much as you claim you wouldnt be here posting your fairy-tales. I can recall at least three or four times where you say you dont care or its not important yet you want to come and spend your time here. Go away.

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[Havok1]

That's the whole point of GDP is to be able to compare economys.

Think about someone who makes 10million dollars/year and spends 100k a year on guns, vs someone who makes 100k/y and spends 5k a year on guns...

A 0.4% of GDP donation from the USA is a lot but is pretty much un-noticiable. Out of a $100k/y income it would be $400...
The nations giving much larger percentages of GDP would be like spending $400 with an income of $40% or 50k... it will hurt more.

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On the previous page you posted a graph titled “the countries pulling their weight in ukraine” or something like that. I notice a lot of European countries aren’t shown ahead of the US on that list. You’re trying to make it sound like a lot of European nations are doing more than they are.

 

[cycleguy2300]

russian propaganda is claiming the apartment in Lviv was a weapons warehouse...

Hey Havok, what is todays excuse for russia attacking civilians??

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[easy rider]

No, % of GDP is used to understand how much value each dollar had for the giver...

A wealthy man may give a big numbered donation but it is a small portion of his income and unnoticeable in his expenses while a poor could give a bum $5 and have to reach much deaper into his pocket to find it. GDP allows us to relate how much an expense will "cost".



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So by your logic, we should be giving closer to a trillion even though we are thousands of miles away. It all boils down to who benefits. Who is really benefitting from a great portion of all those dollars? The people of Ukraine? Are the people of Afghanistan better off from all the money the U.S. poured into it?

 

[cycleguy2300]

So by your logic, we should be giving closer to a trillion even though we are thousands of miles away. It all boils down to who benefits. Who is really benefitting from a great portion of all those dollars? The people of Ukraine? Are the people of Afghanistan better off from all the money the U.S. poured into it?

Attempting to compare between Afghanistan and Ukraine is not realistically possible. We invaded a sovereign nation (who was happy to support those who were our enemies).

We tried to change the politics of Afghanistan but their politics are the direct result of their religion...

Ukraine IS free and had been trying to throw off the remnants of their soviet experience and history of russian oppression and finally succeeded in 2014 which is why russia invaded. Prior to 2014, the leaders of Ukriane had been friendly to russia, much like belarus is now, and with the 2014 revolution a legitimate government came into power one freely chosen by the Ukrainian people and they began to distance themselves from their corrupt soviet past and turn west away from russia.

Ukriane is free, Ukraine wants to be free and Ukraine is fighting to stay free against a historic oppressor. Giving arms, equipment, cash or going there and helping with your own hands will help Ukraine. We tried to fundamentally change Afghanistan, while all that need to be done for Ukraine to stay free and get freer is to kick an invading tyrant out.

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[easy rider]

Finally! The politicians of the U.S. have now found a righteous cause in war. Never thought it would happen in my lifetime.

 

[cycleguy2300]

The importance of technology...

This war requires much more than some rifles and men to dig trenches and pull triggers.

Having effective artillery has proven incredibly helpful for Ukraine striking russian ammo, fuel and equipment dumps with precision. Having cluster munitions will allow effective anti-personel strikes against troops and unarmored vehicles continuing to hamper russian logistics and thrir abiloty to repel and counter-attack.

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[easy rider]

There's nothing like perpetuation over de-escalation.

 

[cycleguy2300]

There's nothing like perpetuation over de-escalation.

Tell that to russia... they are the ones perpetrating tyranny.

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