Allan West Sounds Off On His Wife's Recent DUI Arrest

[cycleguy2300]

They are sure slow walking that blood test.
I wonder why?

What's the normal time to get a DWI blood draw analysis back?

Love you guys, but it isnt a next day thing...

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[45tex]

What's the normal time to get a DWI blood draw analysis back?

Love you guys, but it isnt a next day thing...

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That's just it. For booze alone it is an overnight thing.
Don't know about Dallas

 

[cycleguy2300]

The bigger issue for me on that topic is the LEO’s presumed credibility as a witness during the trial phase. If the LEO is going to make that statement, uses it as PC, put it in a report, they damn sure better seize the evidence and have it tested so there is objective evidence to support the subjective observation.

Unfortunately, lacking that objective evidence does not generally result in a suppression of the subjective observation since it is presumed the LEO is a credible witness unless proven otherwise by the defense. Good luck with that.

Anything found in the vehicle search may create a more complete picture and aid conviction, but it can't be justification for the arrest unless it was known prior to the arrest, like she handed it to him or something.

The analogy would be kicking in a door and finding a counterfeit operation. The printer found after the door was kicked can't be used as justification for kicking down the door (unless you have a warrant). It is called Fruit of the Poisonous Tree where basically the ends do not justify the means.

Nothing that happens after an arrest can justify the arrest.

Not everything can be saved for evidence, it simply isn't reasonable to save a sample of each open container of Bud Light for analysis. We typically have cameras now, but "I saw the driver, later ID'd Richard Breath driving" really shouldn't require a DNA swab of the steering wheel...
The word of officers is presumed to be trustworthy because historically it has been. There are a few notable dicks that sully the reputation, but 99.9% do great work 99% of the time.


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[cycleguy2300]

That's just putting the vial in the right baggy.
I'd bet they are running a "Hail Mary" desperate
full toxin screen looking for anything.
But that fine officer smelled booze in a cup. And that lie
aint gonna fly.

Why is it so important to you to believe the officer was lying?

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[cycleguy2300]

That's just it. For booze alone it is an overnight thing.
Don't know about Dallas

And you know this how?

They typically dont just check for alcohol...

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[mongoose]

What training do you think police have and what do you think police need?

Seriously, you show up to a check welfare urgent in a Whataburger drive through for a person passed out in a running vehicle with the brakes on.

Explain fully how you think an officer with your training should respond and how you think a traditionally trained officer would respond.

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I think the Police should be trained in common sense. When you come up on a guy who slumped over the wheel of a parked non-running truck, is non responsive and is wearing a medic alert bracelet , you should not being throwing him to the ground in a gravel parking lot.
Fortunately, the jolt as he hit the ground stimulated him enough to say diabetic. The dumb asses even insisted on cuffing him to the gurney on the trip to the hospital. This after the Police we informed he was having a diabetic episode by the EMTs. Now my friend is a big guy, but this treatment was negligent BS.

 

[cycleguy2300]

I think the Police should be trained in common sense. When you come up on a guy who slumped over the wheel of a parked non-running truck, is non responsive and is wearing a medic alert bracelet , you should not being throwing him to the ground in a gravel parking lot.
Fortunately, the jolt as he hit the ground stimulated him enough to say diabetic. The dumb asses even insisted on cuffing him to the gurney on the trip to the hospital. This after the Police we informed he was having a diabetic episode by the EMTs. Now my friend is a big guy, but this treatment was negligent BS.

"Common sense" isnt training.

Walk me through step by step of how you as Officer Mongoose would have responded to this call.

I'll throw out some scenarios for you that might come up as I question your responses.
-The guy is simply ignoring people
-the guy is dead
+by suicide
+by homicide
+by natural causes
-the guy is planning his suicide
-the guy is planning an ambush
-the guy is is drunk
+ compliant
+ an asshole
+ a fighter
-the guy is ODing
-the guy is having a medical issue
-the guy is just sleeping
+and hates cops
+and is cool
+and is scared of cops

Oh and don't forget he may be armed with a knife or a gun, or may have some skill in hand-to-hand, or may be a big dude

The list goes on...

You cannot just pick one you plan for, you have to plan for the most dangerous and by process of elimination get to the safest. If you march up with a packet of glucose and the guy is pretty much anything BUT having a medical issue or sleeping and chill you are behind the curve and it can get people killed or hurt a lot worse than some scrapes from getting taken down on some gravel and cuffed. It sucks, but really, what do you expect to happen? I can usually be more patient because I tend to get a second or third officer as backup, but someone not following instructions and maybe he reached to start the car or looked like he was and yeah, out the car you come.


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[mongoose]

"Common sense" isnt training.

Walk me through step by step of how you as Officer Mongoose would have responded to this call.

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You mean with two Officers on the scene, you can’t think of a better way of handling the situation. Please.

 

[cycleguy2300]

You mean with two Officers on the scene, you can’t think of a better way of handling the situation. Please.

It really doesn't seem you are thinking the situation through objectively.

Walk me through what Officer Mongoose would have done. Please.

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[Axxe55]

You mean with two Officers on the scene, you can’t think of a better way of handling the situation. Please.

@cycleguy2300 did ask how IF you were a LE officer would have handled the same situation.

Personally, I like to hear how you would have handled that situation as well.

 

[Axxe55]

A man I have known for over thirty years and is really good friend, who retired from the Texas DPS after over twenty something years as trooper, and I'll call him "Trooper Gary" for this post.

I asked Trooper Gary once many years ago why he didn't cut people who were impaired from alcohol a little more slack. He relayed this story as his reasoning.

When Trooper Gary was still a brand new trooper, he stopped a impaired driver from alcohol, and gave him a stern warning, and told the driver after much begging and pleading to drive home and stay there until he was sobered up. Driver promised he would do just that.

Several hours later, Trooper Gary got a call for multiple vehicle accident, with possible fatalities. He rolled up on the scene. The vehicle and driver that had caused the accident, was the drunk he had stopped several hours earlier. He hadn't gone home and stayed there, and if anything, possibly might have been even more intoxicated than earlier. He ran into a family driving down the road, and a couple of people had died as result of injuries.

Trooper Gary said he swore after that he would never let another impaired driver slide by. If they were legally intoxicated, he would arrest them. If not for their own safety, then for the safety of other drivers.

I understand and respect his stance, and I happen to agree 110% with my friend.

 

[mongoose]

@cycleguy2300 did ask how IF you were a LE officer would have handled the same situation.

Personally, I like to hear how you would have handled that situation as well.

Well, with two motorcycle patrolmen on scene, while one Officer kept a safe distance and was at the ready I would have tried to get the slumped over man to respond. Keep in mind that the man was in a stopped truck, engine off, drivers side window down and seat belted in place. I would have approached the man and felt his neck for a pulse. Felling a pulse but also finding him cold and clammy I would have called for an ambulance. I would have looked for a medic alert bracelet or necklace. I would have tried to make him comfortable. These two Patrolmen proceeded to unbuckle him, open the drivers side door, and pulled on my friend until he fell to the ground. This action caused the EMT to consider the injuries occurred when he hit the ground ( he is a big man) sever enough to warrant a ride to the hospital. Otherwise he would have been treated at the scene and released ( only cost him a $2000.00 hospital visit/ ambulance ride. The patrolmens actions were witnessed by the owners of the hole in the wall he parked behind…..my friend was mostly out of it.

 

[TheDan]

If a Policeman can carry Narcan and are able to make the medical decision to administer it to a peace of shit., then they surely could carry dextrose to administer to a diabetic and make that medical decision.

I'm now imagining a scenario where someone is slipping into a diabetic coma and is administered Narcan... Thanks.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Well, with two motorcycle patrolmen on scene, while one Officer kept a safe distance and was at the ready I would have tried to get the slumped over man to respond. Keep in mind that the man was in a stopped truck, engine off, drivers side window down and seat belted in place. I would have approached the man and felt his neck for a pulse. Felling a pulse but also finding him cold and clammy I would have called for an ambulance. I would have looked for a medic alert bracelet or necklace. I would have tried to make him comfortable. These two Patrolmen proceeded to unbuckle him, open the drivers side door, and pulled on my friend until he fell to the ground. This action caused the EMT to consider the injuries occurred when he hit the ground ( he is a big man) sever enough to warrant a ride to the hospital. Otherwise he would have been treated at the scene and released ( only cost him a $2000.00 hospital visit/ ambulance ride. The patrolmens actions were witnessed by the owners of the hole in the wall he parked behind…..my friend was mostly out of it.

I can say with hearty assurance they didn't take him for getting pulled out of a car onto the ground. EMS took him because he was going into a freaking diabetic coma.

What does at the ready mean? Why not have both go hands on so they use their numbers to their advantage in case the guy fights?

Also, it is even more important that officers on motorcycles get the driver out of the car. With patrol cars you can block in the vehicle so if they wake up they can't drive off. With a moto it doesn't work so well... like I said before it sucks your friend got busted up, but it doesn't mean the officers actions were unreasonable.

Priority #1 on that scene once you got to the door was get the vehicle out of play and it is usually easier and safer to get the driver out than reaching across and risking getting tangled up and dragged if the vehicle starts rolling. Seemingly knocked out or chill people have a habit of suddenly waking up and wanting to leave.

So as the backup officer is some distance off at the ready and you are focused on looking for a medical bracelet, this guy wakes up sees a strange dude all up in his bizness and reaches for the kitchen knife partially under his right thigh... now what?

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[cycleguy2300]

I'm now imagining a scenario where someone is slipping into a diabetic coma and is administered Narcan... Thanks.

Probably better than glucose to someone needing narcan...

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[mongoose]

I can say with hearty assurance they didn't take him for getting pulled out of a car onto the ground. EMS took him because he was going into a freaking diabetic coma.

What does at the ready mean? Why not have both go hands on so they use their numbers to their advantage in case the guy fights?

Also, it is even more important that officers on motorcycles get the driver out of the car. With patrol cars you can block in the vehicle so if they wake up they can't drive off. With a moto it doesn't work so well... like I said before it sucks your friend got busted up, but it doesn't mean the officers actions were unreasonable.

Priority #1 on that scene once you got to the door was get the vehicle out of play and it is usually easier and safer to get the driver out than reaching across and risking getting tangled up and dragged if the vehicle starts rolling. Seemingly knocked out or chill people have a habit of suddenly waking up and wanting to leave.

So as the backup officer is some distance off at the ready and you are focused on looking for a medical bracelet, this guy wakes up sees a strange dude all up in his bizness and reaches for the kitchen knife partially under his right thigh... now what?

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He could have been treated at the scene as local. FD did just that in a prior incident. I’ve only had one Police car pull in front of me ( haven’t been stop that much) however , my buddy was pulled up to the back restaurant wall. Hell, I could have shot and killed ever Policeman that has walked up to my window. You are making excuses to justify a bad stop. Medical bracelets are not a fashion statement……look for them.

 

[glenbo]

OpEd by Allen West:

Chivalry

Maybe the real issue in America is that we have a dearth of chivalrous men in elected positions.

west4texas.com

 

[cycleguy2300]

He could have been treated at the scene as local. FD did just that in a prior incident. I’ve only had one Police car pull in front of me ( haven’t been stop that much) however , my buddy was pulled up to the back restaurant wall. Hell, I could have shot and killed ever Policeman that has walked up to my window. You are making excuses to justify a bad stop. Medical bracelets are not a fashion statement……look for them.

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[toddnjoyce]

…
The word of officers is presumed to be trustworthy because historically it has been.

My comment wasn’t about forbidden fruit, it was about LEO credibility in a particularly subjective observation based on smell.

A canine’s sniffer, which I think we can all agree is much more sensitive than ours, is subject to initial and ongoing certification, which can be easily challenged in court. “Officer is your canine certified to detect alcohol?” No.

We cannot take that same approach with the human as the court will state the observation is allowable on credibility alone. If the state, which always holds the upper hand in a prosecution, can be allowed such wide latitude to influence the jury with such a statement as ‘I approached the vehicle and was greeted by the smell of alcohol’ and it doesn’t return in the the SFST, PBT or evidentiary breathalyzer, or the blood panel, it does not change the court’s view in the future that the officer is presumed credible in making that observation. It also does not undo the harm of the arrest and most likely license suspension if the ALR hearing isn’t requested by the defense. That suspension does have do harm to the accused.

I don’t really want to go down the path of DRE abuses, but these types of things really, really bother me at the core, because just one integrity breach is too many given the power and advantages the state has over the accused.

 

[toddnjoyce]

OpEd by Allen West:

Chivalry

Maybe the real issue in America is that we have a dearth of chivalrous men in elected positions.

west4texas.com

Conveniently forgets the arresting officer was female.