Thread: Straw Purchase?
12-08-2010, 10:41 AM #1
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
Here's the situation:
There's a gun I want to buy out of town (still in TX).
I am legally allowed to buy the gun (I have my CHL).
My friend has his CHL also.
Can my friend pick up the gun for me from the private seller while he's in said town?
Is that illegal in any way?
To complicate things; can same friend buy gun from a dealer (with my money), then give the gun to me later?
My understanding of a straw purchase is buying a gun for someone that can not legally buy the gun themselves.
12-08-2010, 11:06 AM #2
With a purchase from an FFL the law does not distinguish between someone who is purchasing on behalf of a person who legally cannot purchase or possess a firearm, and one who is not. There are exceptions but the FFL should know them all.
There are no straw purchase laws for private sellers.
The seller assumes most of the legal risks in private transactions in my opinion.
In my opinion if there is any reasonable doubt or indication that the gun will end up in the hands of someone who cannot own a firearm or the firearm will be transfered illegally out of the state or country the transaction shouldn't happen. This is in the sellers best interest not the purchaser.
*I'm not a lawyer.A "gun free zone" is tyrannies playground.I carry a gun to give me options, not a single solution.
12-08-2010, 11:08 AM #3
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
- The great country of West Texas
I dont see why the CHL should matter. If I were the one selling the gun and you sent someone else after it, then I wouldnt let them have it. CHL ot Not.
12-08-2010, 12:06 PM #4
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
If I understand correctly, Seller was contacted by buyer, deal made. Buyer told seller he would have someone else come by to pick it up. Seller was reasonably assured that buyer is able to purchase and own said gun. Seller is reasonably assured that person picking up is able to purchase and own said gun. If it were a private sale with me as seller. I would do it.
When I buy a gun I record the date of purchase, serial number, cost and first name of the person it came from. When I sell a gun I remove it from my owned gun list. Put it into my sold list with serial number and first name of person along with sold date. Cost and selling price as well as the first name of the person I got it from are deleted. Doubt the list would be of any use to anyone but myself but it is a listing of where the gun came from and where it went. I claim no expertise in the legalities, but figure it is good to know the serial numbers of everything in my safe should something happen, (fire/water/theft). After it leaves my hands it just that, out of my control/ownership. With regards to this question, I would record the first name of the guy who contacted me and the first name of the guy that picked it up... Sold to Bob, picked up by John rifle xxxxxxxxxxx on 12/xx/10.
BTW.. if you do not have your serial numbers recorded please take a minute to do so.. Put it in a safe place... just in case..
12-08-2010, 12:35 PM #5Ban hurricanes
12-08-2010, 02:06 PM #6private seller
No CHL required either.
12-08-2010, 02:16 PM #7
You cannot transfer a firearm to someone that is ineligible to possess it. That's what prevents people in a private transaction from committing a "straw purchase" in terms of buying it for someone that is ineligible. However, buying it from a resident, then having a resident make the transaction or pick it up, is not illegal in the state of Texas so long as everyone that touches the gun is legit.
From an FFL standpoint, the only protection we have on a straw purchase is if it's for a gift, and the buyer fills out the 4473. Generally we will want it to be immediate family, otherwise it looks a bit suspect. You have to kinda understand that we really don't know you, and don't want the attention should the gun get flagged at the border or in an arrest seizure.
12-08-2010, 02:17 PM #8
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
- Kenefick, TX
From a private seller there is not an issue.
As described it would be a straw purchase if purchased from an FFL.
He buys the gun with his money, then sells it to you or gives it to you as a gift. This is not a straw purchase.
He buys the gun with your money for you than this is a straw purchase.
Keep in mind that a straw purchase is a purchase in which the actual purchaser uses someone else — a.k.a. the “straw person” — to purchase the firearm and complete the paperwork. Generally, the straw purchaser is used because the actual purchaser is not eligible to conduct a transaction because he or she is a felon or other prohibited person. However, a straw purchase occurs even when the actual purchaser is not a prohibited person. The crime committed is knowingly making a false statement on the Form 4473 indicating that the straw purchaser is the actual purchaser, when this is not the case. Additionally make sure you familiarize yourself and anyone who purchases a firearm as a gift with the rules associated with the ATF I 5300.2 pamphlet [Youth Handgun Safety Act Notice -Joat].
ATF Online - Training - Firearms - Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide Learning Theater - Straw Purchase Attempt TranscriptCome to the Dark Side. We have cookies!
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Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Senators or Representatives, and Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators or Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States .
12-08-2010, 02:22 PM #9
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
Technically yes its a straw sale. Have your friend call it a gift and it is all better.Don't steal, the government hates competition.
12-08-2010, 02:33 PM #10
It's not a straw sale if his friend buys him a gift.
Don't lie on the form 4433 questions and everything will be legal. I wouldn't advocate anything else as it's not legal.
It's the old question of ... If you call a sheep's tail a leg, how many legs does a sheep have?A "gun free zone" is tyrannies playground.I carry a gun to give me options, not a single solution.